Courage Circle: A Space to Cultivate a Compassionate Mindset for Healing. A Conversation with Sandy Stream. (Epi. #197)

Guest Bio:
Sandy Stream is a teacher roof law, the author of Courage Circle,  and she is an activist whose work is built on the belief that everyone deserves and is capable of finding peace and warrior-like strength within themselves. After teaching law for 20 years, raising her two children, and facing a life full of adversities and lessons, she decided to turn her efforts towards facilitating workshops for young and experienced adults to encourage them to live in peace and power.

Guest's Email & Social Media Links

• info@thecouragecircle.com
• Sandy Stream's Website: thecouragecircle.com
• https://www.instagram.com/thecouragecircle/, thecouragecircle.com, https://sandystream.substack.com/publish/home

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Transcript

• 00:00:03
   Welcome. Sandy. Thank you so much for being here.
• 00:00:07
   Thank you so much for having me, Shilpa.
• 00:00:10
   Well, it's been in the works for a while, and I am aware of your book, the courage circle for those who are watching on YouTube. And I'm excited for you to share your journey on how you came about writing the book, the courageous circle, how to live in truth and dare, and just your journey in general. So, without further ado, I'll let you speak.
• 00:00:35
   Thanks, Chilpa. I think like most people in the world, I had a whole life of adversities and pleasure and excitement and all good things and all difficult things, but I was kind of doing, I thought, quite okay. But then during COVID I entered into a pretty difficult time in my relationships at home with, you know, just everything was so, so difficult. And I ended up, I don't know, for whatever reason, we don't know when we're doing it, but I painted a circle on my wall, and that was the place where I would sit and basically try to figure out life, like, how do I live? You know, I was. Things were really, really hard, and so I was just doing a lot of meditating, a lot of reading, a lot of watching things, a lot of everything. Not knowing this will become a book and just organized my learnings. And now after publishing the book, the Courage circle, which basically contains, like, a multitude of small pieces that were necessary for me to feel well in life, to function well, to go about my life, just, you know, a how to manual, I think, in a way. So I decided to also start facilitating circles after I published a book. So twice a week, I meet with people in person and online, and we discuss these topics that, sadly, we do not learn in our education system. So I'm a lawyer by profession, and I have this degree and that degree and whatever, but I really didn't know what I really needed to know to live in a healthy way. And now I feel like, you know, I'm always still learning, but definitely moved in the right direction and trying to share with others because I do believe that's our path to have some peace in this world. So.
• 00:02:37
   You mentioned that the catalyst was around the COVID period. Can you share what was going through your mind at that time? And what was the catalyst to even tap into modalities like meditation? Had you been trained in any of those modalities?
• 00:03:01
   No, I wasn't trained in meditation at all. And I think, you know, just the level of how hard things were emotionally for me. And I had already gone through many things many traumas. I had healed many traumas, so I kind of thought I was okay. But just the level of how difficult or how badly I felt internally had me turning to really trying to figure it out. So I would say it's almost scientific. For me, meditation is a bit of a scientific endeavor, understanding our emotions as well as a scientific. For me, they're scientific in terms of, like, if we're just trying to find the truth, like, I'm not, you know, if we're just trying to find the truth, what's going on? Why do I feel this way? Why, you know, what should I do? How do I live? How do I make choices? All that. So I think I was just trying to find the truth. And maybe my legal mind helped me in terms of being able to organize information and such complex information and little pieces and. And end up just having clarity and things making sense. So I don't know if I answered your question well, but it was just really hard. And I think that's something most people can relate with in their own life, in their own way, whatever that is. But there is this similarity as human beings that we all can experience very difficult times, and we're all able to look inward and outward, just look at the situation, and, I think, find ways to come out and come out well, actually. So.
• 00:04:42
   And this framework you've described, where you are leaning into the science as you look for ways to, I would say, heal or grow or expand, can you share maybe one or two examples, examples of things that I would say gave you satisfaction scientifically, but by the same token, also gave you a sense of peace?
• 00:05:11
   Well, there were so many pieces, like I mentioned, but I think one of the first and most important one is to stop demonizing our own emotions. So that's like a big one. I think historically, emotions were seen as something negative or you're too emotional or things like that. Obviously, I've changed my point of view about that, and I actually really look to my emotions to guide me. So it's actually a complete reverse of what I had been taught. So now I look at them to tell me what's going on. So if I'm sad, well, okay, maybe I have to look at that and see. Maybe I'm lonely. Maybe I need help. Maybe I'm grieving, like, you know, what's going on, instead of, oh, you shouldn't feel or, oh, you shouldn't feel. So I think that was a really big part of it, just learning to respect and listen to our emotions in general. And then I started I mean, there's so many pieces. I can talk and talk and talk, but, you know, learning to exercise the muscle of courage, which, one step at a time, we can exercise in many different ways. I mean, for me, it's nonstop now. It's just a way of living, basically, and it's nothing in the way again, it's almost like everything I was taught was backwards. So courage, even just like demonizing emotions, we were taught, they're bad, they're not. Courage also, I think we were taught is more something like jumping in front of trains or doing whatever, and that's certainly not the case. Sometimes courage is just getting out of bed. Sometimes courage is trusting a feeling you have on something you need to try. It could be, you know, speaking up or setting a boundary. I mean, there's so many, so many ways that we can learn to live courageously and start. So that's another way. I mean, there's so many. Kindness was another one. I think I was mistaught. So kindness, to me, I think I was taught, and many of us are taught, is something you do to others. So even if I tell you, like, you should be kind, right away you're thinking, oh, yeah, I should be kind to my kids, I should be kind, you know, we're right away looking to the external and really, I don't think have been taught to be kind to ourselves, like in a deep way. Not, I don't mean in a superficial way, I mean in a deep, deep way to be kind to ourselves. And that's also another opposite, I guess it was opposite day, where, you know, taking care of yourself is often taught as something that's selfish instead of as your responsibility. So now I try to be responsible. And so these are among the topics we discuss every, you know, every week we discuss different topics. These are maybe a few, but there's so many that we need to put together in order to walk around life functioning well.
• 00:08:02
   You know, it sounds like a lot of this shift or change first started with your desire to heal yourself or understand yourself. And by virtue of doing so, it sounds like then you expanded it into literally creating a circle. Now, maybe you could share more about this circle, how you were inspired to create the circle, what it means to have the circle. Is it a virtual set of individuals meeting and the evolution of your circle, where did it start, and where is it now?
• 00:08:48
   Well, initially it started at my yoga studio, a very nice yoga studio in Montreal called Morfaux Bleu. And what's really beautiful, I mean, we meet every week. It's been a year and a half pretty much. And what's, I think, very unusual is that it's anybody that comes, anybody meaning all different ages and races and genders and professions and religions and whatever, and we definitely manage to interact with each other with respect. And so that, I think, is an unusual space these days in the world. So it's very beautiful just to be in it myself. So, let alone what we learned or what we discussed. But for me, just being in a space where human beings can be respectful and share honestly is already pretty magical in and of itself. And it's a pretty straightforward process that I try to do. So we start by introducing ourselves, and then I ask people to drop their titles, actually. So, like, drop your title of who you are at work or on this title, and that I'm a lawyer, I'm a mom, I'm whatever, kind of drop it all just for the hour that we're together. So that really helps. And then I do a quick listening exercise, which I think is actually very critical in our world to learn how to do. So if you feel like doing it, shilpa, if you want to share something with me, I can show the quick listening exercise, and then we get to a topic. So we discuss a topic every week. But before that, I always do a listening demo. Are you in the mood to. You want to see that?
• 00:10:31
   Absolutely. Let's have the viewers as well as myself have the opportunity to learn this technique from you.
• 00:10:42
   Okay, Mac. Well, I'm sure I'm not the only one who does it, but every single time we meet, I start by asking if one person could just share something going on in their life. So something they're going through could be easy, hard, miserable, like it doesn't really matter. So, are you comfortable, shilpa? Sharing something could be fun. Big, hard, whatever.
• 00:11:04
   As I mentioned just before, I hit record that right after you and I are done talking on our podcast today, I'm off to clapping for my son as he is graduating from elementary school.
• 00:11:20
   And how do you feel feel about that? If it's okay to ask.
• 00:11:25
   I'm excited. You know, my husband is more like thinking forward. It's good that he's growing, and I'm like, oh, my little boy. And wanting to hold on to the moment. So there's some duality there.
• 00:11:40
   Okay, well, thanks for sharing. So, as I mentioned, for me, this is scientific. So when we sit in a circle and somebody shares something, like you just did, and just say, well, we just all witnessed something that is true. Right? So what you said is 100% true. It's not 50%, it's not 70%. It's actually true. It's reality. And so the way people listen sometimes could really, I guess, not respect that this is actually true. So the first type of listening, if we imagine ourselves as a human mirror, instead of actually reflecting the truth of what you just said, it kind of put the mirror down as if what you said doesn't even exist. Or, you know, we can call it gaslighting, dismissive, whatever, a million different things. But it would sound something like, oh, really? The graduations now in June? Like, oh, that's so weird. I thought they do them in May in elementary or something. Like, I just, I mean, I totally missed what you're saying. Like, I'm just somewhere else, maybe in myself or whatever. So we might maybe smile about it, you and I. But actually I find it pretty serious if we're relating with someone who's doing this all the time. Like it's so bad for our well being and our mental health and everything else if we are constantly met with a person who's like, not here or with us in that way. So that's first type of listening. Second type of listening. Again, if we imagine ourselves a human mirror, so instead of lifting it up, seeing the truth person lifts it up but puts it down really fast, this mirror, because they want to go fix the situation or they want to fix your feelings or they want to fix something. So we can call that the listening, the fixing energy or whatever, the listening with fixing or something. And that one would sound something like, well, Shilpa, you know, I mean, he's eleven years old, so I mean, I think you should just kind of get over it a little bit faster because it's really important that he grows up well. And like, I just think like, you know, you should get used to this. And I, because it is the right age, so no need to be so emotional. Just like, you know, go and, you know, that's part of growing up. Okay, so obviously unhealthy and I'm trying to fix your feelings. I don't really like that you're feeling like a little bit whatever it is, and I kind of want you to get over it. It's a bit maybe controlling you or who knows, it has many elements when we do this, or sometimes people do it just to give advice and feel really smart and they need that or, you know, many, many different ways or many reasons where that happens. And for me, the importance of not doing this or trying not to and of course, I had to learn it. I've done everything the opposite way. I'm, like, trying to do everything the ways I've learned. That's just how life is. But I could see how the impact of doing this number two all the time sends an indirect message, like an underlying message. Something's wrong with you, Shilpa. Something's wrong with you. Can you feel that underneath of how I reacted to you? And if we're getting this message all the time in our society, no wonder so many people walk around feeling like something is wrong with them, right? And it's not true, but it still makes sense. You might feel that because every single time you say something, someone's like, nah, but you should feel this. Oh, but you should think. And you, whatever. So that's number two and number three, which is hopefully the ideal way, very difficult way to listen, is to actually try to be a clean reflection of the truth, just the truth, so that one would sound something like, shilpa, you seem super excited to go to this graduation of your son who's in elementary school, but you said you're having some mixed feeling because you're kind of excited about it, but also feeling like, oh, your baby's growing up, so that's kind of hard. And so you're kind of. It looks like you're taking some deep breaths, but not necessarily an easy thing for you to witness or watch or be a part of. Is that about true? Is that more or less right?
• 00:15:33
   Yes, absolutely. And that is so vital. I can see how during COVID that element was so missing for a lot of us.
• 00:15:44
   Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think it still is. Like, I read, actually just yesterday that some people are writing were, like, in an emotional recession or something. I thought that's a. That's a cool way to describe things, but I think it's just so rampant that it's, you know, it's very hard for people, I think, to function in the world without this. It's not even about being seen and heard or to be kind. It's literally like to see what's true, like that we're in the same reality. Like, what occurred is true. This is what you feel like. That's true. Doesn't mean we're not gonna do anything or discuss or whatever, but it is actually true. Right? That is what's going on.
• 00:16:30
   It is what is going on. Now, this listening tool that you've described, can you share? How did you tap into this technique? Meaning that did you go seek it out or it was there or something you had already been applying in life in general, or did you refine it? You were like, you know, this is.
• 00:16:53
   What I really need at this time, probably number three. It was definitely what I needed and also what I was not witnessing. And I guess in meditation, you know, a lot of meditation is about trying to be with the truth, right? I mean, whether it's pain or your feelings, and you're just trying to see what it's true. And so for me, I guess I got. That's why the book is called how to live in truth and dare. I think I got a little bit obsessed with wanting to see and be and feel the truth, not what's fun, not what's nice, not what's convenient, not what's anything else, but just what's true. And so, for me, I guess, naturally, it now feels like it makes sense. Like, okay, Shilka feels this. That's true. It's not more really complex than that. It's just very hard for people to do that because they have many other things that they're experiencing at the same time. So you almost have to put yourself aside for a moment to just see what's true. And that's very hard, I think, but it's very possible. So in our circle, once I just do this little demo, and I just suggest, guys, can we just try not to do one, not to do two? Going to fix anybody or advising? Let's just try to just see what's true, whatever. And it works every single week, people just listen respectfully and allow each other's, you know, things to exist. So I think that's a wonderful possibility for people to know that it exists in the world, and you can try to create that in your own life. It's very hard with your relationships to listen in this way with others. And I think this is what connects people and opens people immediately. Right. So if I listen to you this way, which I try to, but if we weren't on the Zoom right now, probably you would start opening and telling me more, yeah, actually, blah, blah, blah. Because this. And, you know, and that's how people connect. They become more intimate and sharing. And the way we can do that is by having this third type of listening.
• 00:19:00
   And it is really powerful because you mentioned that you come from the law background, and my background was technology. I think a lot of us, either because of culture or education, become so locked in our head and cerebral and then dropping back into the heart space allows us to not only listen to others, but listen to ourselves better. You mentioned earlier something that really struck me was kindness. And we often think of kindness as extending it to others. But by virtue of listening, have you noticed that you're kinder to yourself because you're listening to yourself more?
• 00:19:46
   Yeah, I mean, if you listen in a kind way, I mean, one of the big things for me is to listen or feel, well, listen and feel, you know, my own suffering and my pain and my difficulty. So when you go there and you really realize, and I think most people, if they went there, they might realize how much hard time they might have had in their life in one way or another. Who hasn't? And so when you start to feel for yourself as you would for your child or anyone else, like, oh, you know, I really feel for this person that, you know, they've struggled. So if you feel for yourself that way, like, really, really deeply feel for yourself, and then, at least for me, like, there was a conscious decision, like, I I really don't want to keep suffering. Like, I really, really don't want to keep suffering. I've suffered enough. So with that conscious decision, you know, you start to see how many things you might be doing, not in a blaming way, but how many things you can do that are causing your own suffering. And there's a big list once you actually look from that lens, like, how am I creating this suffering in myself? By, it could be many things. Not setting boundaries or not communicating or not being kind to the self or, you know, not forgiving, or there's many, many ways we suffer. But if we start to look at, how can I stop my own suffering? Not stop my own feeling. Feeling is not suffering. Just stop your own suffering. So I think that is one of the reasons that I'm kind with myself, because I feel like I don't feel like I need to walk around suffering.
• 00:21:34
   Absolutely. I can relate to all of that, particularly the suffering element, which is why.
• 00:21:39
   I.
• 00:21:42
   Connect so deeply to the listening aspect and meditation. You mentioned that your circle first started in the yoga studio. Were you the one that created this circle? Yeah.
• 00:21:54
   And what happened? At first, I went to see the studio owner, which I know, and I asked her, I have this idea, and you know where I get these ideas, we don't know and why and whatever. But I listened to, as you said, that I have this idea to do this, and I listened to myself, and I said, okay, I'll try. I don't know. I've never done anything like this in my life. And she just said, yes. And so I started facilitating them, and at first, it was like, two people, then three people, then two people, then no people. Like, literally nobody came. And then I posted it on meetup, which is, whatever, a way to post events and whatever. And now regularly, 1015 people come every single week, and we discuss topics. And I think what's really beautiful is that because we're discussing in this type of environment, like, the environment is healthy because of that, and because people can share and be open, then people can also develop connections and friendships that are, you know, more meaningful in that environment. I think anybody can do this if they want to. Right. Just to create an environment that's healthy.
• 00:23:06
   Absolutely. I just love hearing about this. I will definitely be following up with you to see how the curd circle is evolving. You have your book, which I will share more about in my show notes. One more thing. Now, you're also doing these circles virtually, correct?
• 00:23:28
   Yeah. Once a week as well? Yeah.
• 00:23:30
   Okay. So physically in Montreal, but then also virtually. So anyone from any listeners anywhere. Yeah.
• 00:23:38
   Yeah. Okay.
• 00:23:39
   So I'll make sure that the show notes have the link to your circle as well.
• 00:23:45
   And it's all free.
• 00:23:46
   It's all free. Okay. This is wonderful. Well, I know I can relate to everything you said, and, um, the journey during COVID um, was made even more powerful for me, particularly because I was going through my meditation training, where we were trained on listening. So this is what I deeply resonate with your. Your, I would say, journey around this. Um, well, if you consider coming back, we can go deeper into this as well.
• 00:24:20
   Sure.
• 00:24:21
   Yeah. Wonderful. Sandy, thank you so much.
• 00:24:24
   Thank you. And good luck and enjoy the graduation.
• 00:24:27
   Thank you so much, Sandy.
• 00:24:29
   All right, take care, shilpa.
• 00:24:31
   Take care.