From Anger to Enlightenment: Channeling Energy through Forgiveness for Soul Healing. A Conversation with Katharine Giovanni (Epi.#210)

In this enlightening discussion, Katharine explores the intricate relationship between spirituality, forgiveness, and energy. As a forgiveness coach, she shares her personal journey from a troubled childhood, marked by bullying and alcoholism, to becoming an advocate for forgiveness and emotional healing. She introduces her unique system for tackling forgiveness step-by-step, emphasizing the importance of starting with the easy targets and working up to the more difficult ones. Katharine explains the scientific basis of her method, highlighting how anger and resentment negatively impact our emotional and physical well-being. She provides practical advice for applying her forgiveness model, including the importance of writing things down and creating a quiet space for reflection. Additionally, Katharine delves into the interconnectedness of forgiveness and intuition, revealing how clearing negative energy can unlock our natural intuitive abilities. This episode offers valuable insights and actionable steps for anyone looking to heal emotionally and spiritually.

00:00 Introduction and Welcome
00:31 Catherine's Journey to Forgiveness
02:08 The Turning Point: Sobriety and Forgiveness
02:41 Developing a Forgiveness System
06:32 The Power of Energy in Forgiveness
14:44 Practical Steps to Forgiveness
20:46 Dealing with Uncovered Memories
21:13 The Process of Shadow Work
21:28 Changing Your Perspective on the Past
22:42 Opening Up to Intuition
25:57 The Power of Forgiveness

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Transcript

[00:00:00] shilpa: Well, welcome, Catherine. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. I appreciate you and I appreciate the topic. It's a very, um, much needed topic in our world, as you were talking about just before we hit record. We are going to focus on the topic of spirituality and forgiveness, and I believe, uh, you have a lot of wisdom in that space.

[00:00:31] shilpa: So maybe Catherine, you could start off by sharing your journey. Where did you? Start from that alleged you as a catalyst to arrive where you are. 

[00:00:43] katharine g: Well, the fact I call myself a forgiveness coach sort of implies that the universe has provided me with a Too many shall we say opportunities to forgive so the journey has been Bumpy [00:01:00] and it started in the eighth grade I was horribly bullied in school because I was a I was different and my parents were very pickled meaning they were they were raging Alcoholics, so I tried to commit suicide and I turned into one of my friend pulled me out Talked me out of it and I turned into one of those teenagers that we we all know those teenagers and I kind of just It's Bobbled through life, to be honest with you, just kind of floated through it until my mother fell down a flight of stairs, broke her hip and ended up in the hospital.

[00:01:30] katharine g: And even my mother couldn't get a gin and tonic at the hospital. So she dried out and she got sober and we became closer than sisters. We finished each other's sentences. Practically, we forgave each other. We had three solid years and then she died of breast cancer, which I later got in 2012. Everybody's life has what I call flashpoints.

[00:01:52] katharine g: Some of us have more than one. I've had more than one, but you don't know you're going through it. But when you look back at your life, you can look at that one teacher or [00:02:00] that one time of your life where everything changed. And that was it. I knew that if I didn't change my life, I would. I was gonna die too.

[00:02:08] katharine g: So I quit drinking. It was the only New Year's resolution I only, I ever kept. I've been sober 35 years and it kind of started from there because when you go into those, those rooms, those sobriety rooms, they want you to make amends. I'm really shy. I'm an extroverted introvert now because I'm in my 60s.

[00:02:28] katharine g: Back then, absolutely shy. And if we'd had texting technology, it would have been brilliant. I would have happily reached out to people if I could text them. But you didn't because I'm as old as dirt. And back then, the choice was You either saw them in person or you called them and I didn't want to get yelled at so I didn't do any of it and I just paid at lip service and I would stand, sit alone in my apartment and just say, you know, I forgive you to this person and I forgave you to that [00:03:00] person and I had accidentally stumbled onto the system that I actually use today and I figured out the full system about 20 years later in 2020.

[00:03:11] katharine g: And I started to teach forgiveness in my, all my business workshops. And what I've discovered that everybody on the planet tells you, you have to forgive teacher, parents, nobody teaches you how, and then what if you don't want to, what if it's unforgivable, then what do you do? And the reason nobody wants to do it is because when you hear the word forgiveness on a 10 scale with 10 being an unforgivable dumpster fire and one being the easiest person in the world to forgive.

[00:03:44] katharine g: Every single person listening to this broadcast is thinking of their number 10. Their unforgivable person that wrecked your world that's completely fair. But my system is designed to start you from the easy ones and work your way up to that dumpster fire.[00:04:00] 

[00:04:01] shilpa: And, um, perhaps you can even share that moment when you Decided that you wanted to be the healer of, um, this message that on forgiveness. Um, how did you come to the realization that you had developed a framework, so to speak, that can be applied because sometimes like you were saying, people say forgive, but then how?

[00:04:30] shilpa: I 

[00:04:33] katharine g: always knew deep down inside my soul that, that I was meant for bigger things. And I was always a writer, I've written 12 books. And when I was back in school, the test didn't have an essay, I was sunk because I always, I always aced the essays. And so I was a prolific writer, I wrote, I wrote everything.

[00:04:52] katharine g: And at some point, I just got sick and tired of being sick and tired. I'm also really intuitive, and I'm very adept [00:05:00] at hearing that little bird in your shoulder, so to speak, your intuition. And it was just kind of one afternoon. I just decided to change my life. It, I wish it was more complicated than that, but it wasn't.

[00:05:11] katharine g: I woke up and I just kind of said, bleep it. I'm from New York, so bleep it. And I just decided to change. I know it sounds simple, but it's kind of what I did. And I followed the advice that my gut was telling me to do. I read what I kind of felt I needed to read. And I started to teach myself about spirituality.

[00:05:34] katharine g: And I started to teach myself about love and relationships. And eventually the little bird on my shoulder led me to forgiveness. And so to. So did AA, to be frank, and the more I forgave and the more I expressed love to people, the better I felt. I went from having one friend to having more than one friend, and then a year later I found my husband of 33 years, and my life started to open up.[00:06:00] 

[00:06:00] katharine g: And it was all because I woke up one morning and I just kind of said, blank, this, blank, and I decided to change. 

[00:06:09] shilpa: That is really beautiful. I do believe that it's not so Unusual that when we decide to make that shift and things, things do fall into place. Um, it, something that occurred to me when you were, um, talking about attracting more friends, when you forgave, um, it's.

[00:06:32] shilpa: To me, at least, it's akin to gratitude, that when you're feeling gratitude, you start attracting the essence of that energy. 

[00:06:44] katharine g: Like energy attracts like energy. And that you, you, you've actually keyed in on the special sauce to my, to my system. It's energy. Einstein very clearly proved that energy is neither created nor destroyed.

[00:06:59] katharine g: It just caught. [00:07:00] Transforms from one thing into another. So when you get angry, what do you think that happens? You think it leaves your mouth and it dissipates into the universe. And most people don't think about it at all, do we? We're just yelling in the moment. But it doesn't. It hangs in your energy field until you clear it.

[00:07:14] katharine g: And then, everything in our world has energy around it, including this little silver microphone. It has an energy field around it. So I get people calling me all the time saying, you know, I did do the work, Catherine. I did forgive them. But they have a nasty habit of not staying forgiven because they keep getting triggered.

[00:07:34] katharine g: I get triggered by things I see or smells that I smell or I run into them and they say something stupid and I'm back down the rabbit hole again. Why? Because you didn't forgive the energy around the person. The mantra that I say is I completely forgive Martha. I forgive the energy around Martha. I completely forgive myself.

[00:07:54] katharine g: I forgive the energy around myself. I completely forgive the energy around the entire [00:08:00] relationship. And so it is amen. And that, you know, how it ended any way you like, that's part of the, the, the plan. I'll, and I'll talk about the step by step process, but that's the essence and the core of it. It's energy.

[00:08:12] katharine g: And the reason you're slipping up and the reason you keep getting triggered. It's because you didn't clear the energy and when it comes to the unforgivable, let's say You know, we'll take one of mine. Let's take the bullies in school. Well, I wasn't ready to clear the bullies I wasn't I didn't want to forgive the bullies I didn't even want to forgive the energy around the bullies to be quite honest So we didn't and because everything on our planet has energy around it You can get triggered by people places things dates So I Pat I picked apart the memory and I picked one memory of when I was bullied in the you know in the schoolyard And I forgave the school building, the energy around the school building, the desk that I sat at, the energy around the desk, the [00:09:00] chair, the table, the teacher, the kids who stood around and laughed and didn't help me.

[00:09:05] katharine g: I forgave the, I forgave the city, New York City, I forgave the date, I forgave everything I could think of, and I still haven't forgiven the bully. I'm picking apart the memory. So just picking that apart, it eases it up a little bit. You might get that number 10 person down to a nine and I still haven't forgiven the bully.

[00:09:23] katharine g: Will you ever be able to forgive that number 10 person? There are unforgivable things in this world and you may not. Maybe you were raped. You could, maybe you can't forgive the rapist. I get that, but you could forgive the energy and you can pick apart the memory and you can pick apart the rest of it.

[00:09:39] katharine g: Which will be just enough to get it out of your head. See, the formal definition for forgiveness for me personally is I want you out of my head. I don't want to think about you. I don't want to talk about you. I want you out of my head, but just because they forgive you doesn't mean I want a relationship with you.

[00:09:57] katharine g: I probably don't. And just [00:10:00] because I forgive you doesn't mean I'm giving you a pass. It doesn't mean that you were right and I was wrong. And all of a sudden I'm giving in. That's actually wrong. And I know everybody assumes that, but it's wrong. People also say forgiveness is weak. No, it's not. It's a sign of strength.

[00:10:18] shilpa: Interesting, you should say that, um, just because I forgive you doesn't mean I'm condoning the act. I think that's brilliant because there are many times when I feel maybe unconsciously I was able to forgive any circumstance or person, whatever it may be, but it may not have always been aligned with my feeling that I forgive the act.

[00:10:45] shilpa: And, um,

[00:10:52] katharine g: Deep down you think, I, you know, I was raped in college. I, my life's an open book, so I'm happy to talk about any part of it, but I was raped in [00:11:00] college and I didn't report it because it was with a football player. Who's going to believe me? It was the 19, nevermind what year it was, it was the 1980s. And I couldn't forgive, I couldn't forgive the guy.

[00:11:12] katharine g: I couldn't, I couldn't for a long time. I couldn't even forgive the energy, but just because I forgave that. Eventually I did. I mean, it was the 1980s. Eventually I did forgive it, but just because I forgave it doesn't mean I'm condoning it. You still have to make amends. You still have to do whatever you're going to do.

[00:11:30] katharine g: The reason I need to forgive it is because you're living rent free into my head. Buddha has the most amazing quote of anybody I've ever, ever heard. And he said that anger is like drinking poison and hoping the other person dies.

[00:11:47] katharine g: So by me not being able to forgive the people I, the people and memories, I would rate a number 10 unforgivable is hurting me more than them because they're living their life. They don't give a damn. They're not even listening [00:12:00] to me. So, yeah, I mean, but I think it stems from our childhood. You know, when, when you're in the playground, when you're a little kidlet and maybe somebody punches you and the teacher comes over and says, now say you're sorry to each other and go off and play and in your head, you're going.

[00:12:15] katharine g: But they punched me. I don't want to say I'm sorry. It wasn't my fault. But the teacher makes you say you're sorry anyways. And I think we all connected some unseen dots from those, those experiences. And they're wrong. Because when you forgive, you do it for you, not for them. You don't have to reach out to the person.

[00:12:31] katharine g: You don't have to call them. You don't have to make amends. You're doing it for you. And that being said, that means you can forgive dead people because where they are or are not doesn't matter a lick because they're alive and well in your head. And if it's in your head, it can be forgiven. 

[00:12:47] shilpa: Absolutely. And who wants to allow that energy to exist or live in your head rent free?

[00:12:54] shilpa: Because we've all been there. 

[00:12:57] katharine g: Oh, yuck. No, you don't. It's the last person you want to be [00:13:00] thinking about. Yeah. And you know you've completely forgiven when you can look at the person online, their name, run into them at a party, and you don't care. You don't care good. You don't care bad. You legitimately don't care.

[00:13:15] katharine g: It happened to me about a number of months ago. I've had a number of business partners over the years. And one of them usually sent me to the ceiling and you'd have to peel me off because I was mad. And I ran across her name and saw her picture. I think it was her birthday or something. And I saw it and I didn't care.

[00:13:31] katharine g: And I caught myself and I sat here in shock. I was actually right here at this desk and I sat here and I was like, Wait a minute. I'm not mad. I'm not mad. I got very happy about it. Even wished her a happy birthday. That's freedom. That's joy. Now is the saying I forgive and forget valid? Honey, I'm from New York.

[00:13:53] katharine g: We don't forget anything. So there is no such thing as forgetting. But what I can promise you [00:14:00] is that by you using my system, it will remove the emotional charge. So you're not going to care good. You're not going to care bad. It's literally going to be out of your head. So you can pay attention to other things like how to make more money and how to find your relationship and how to get more health, whatever, whatever it is you need.

[00:14:20] shilpa: It's fascinating that this model or approach you're using to, and I'm not surprised now that we connected over it conceptually, but it's fascinating that it's built around energy and built around it because everything is energy. And I talk a lot about it. I even, you know, have the season of energy awareness.

[00:14:41] shilpa: Um, so. I'd like for you to maybe go like a little more meta and describe for someone who would like to apply it and say, okay, here are the fundaments. So here are the, if there was a diagram where, how do they step through it? [00:15:00] 

[00:15:01] katharine g: Let's speak to the people listening who need a little science. A lot of people say anger is toxic.

[00:15:09] katharine g: And if you're anything like me, when the doctor says that to you and is saying, you know, stress kills in your head, you're thinking, how? It's just where my brain went. There was a study done in Japan called the Japanese water study. And if you just Google that, you'll see it right online. It was done by a guy named Hasumoto.

[00:15:28] katharine g: I can never pronounce his name, something like that, but you'll see it right there. And for the interest of time, I'll just. Say it quick. Took several containers of water. One container of water. All he did was talk to it. That's it. That's all he did. He spoke loving, gorgeous, I love you, you're beautiful type of words.

[00:15:45] katharine g: The other container of water, complete opposite. I hate you. The worst things you could say to anybody, he said to this container of water. He then froze the water and he put it under a microscope. The water he spoke love to had these beautiful [00:16:00] crystal formations. The pictures are right online, they're fascinating.

[00:16:03] katharine g: The water he spoke hate to had the complete opposite. These horrible malformations that were black and brown and looked sick. Why am I saying this to you? The human body is over 95 percent water. So when your self talk is bad, when you're angry and filled with bitterness and hatred and a need for revenge, what do you think it's doing to the water molecules within your own body?

[00:16:27] katharine g: And what do you think it's doing to the energy field around your body? You're literally making yourself sick. So by forgiving people, even starting with the easy ones, you're literally changing your body chemistry, and you're literally changing your life from the inside out, and it's all because of the energy.

[00:16:47] shilpa: I can see that, and um, I, I like the fact that you started with the fact that it's, it's about the effect it's having on you, being [00:17:00] very rational, logical, understanding that, look, you have a choice here, and Yeah, there, there's a direct correlation between cause. In effect, um, how would somebody then step through the next stage on this model?

[00:17:18] katharine g: Well, I want you to sit down alone in a room, and here's the hard one. I want your cell phone to be off. There's an off button on it, people. You can turn the darn thing off. If you're visibly twitching at the thought of turning your phone off, and you're saying, oh, no, I can't do that, nay nay, just turn the, just mute it.

[00:17:39] katharine g: And I don't really want it to be, um, vibrating, because if it dances on your desk, you're going to look at it, right? I just need you alone for about 20 minutes. Then I want you to get a pen of paper and a pe a pen and a pad of paper. Yeah, it's not because I'm old school. There have been studies done. That have proved that by writing things down [00:18:00] on a pad of paper will stick more than things you don't.

[00:18:03] katharine g: There was a study done in Harvard university, maybe 2025 years ago, and they studied these kids and half the kids. They said, say your goals out loud to the room. The other half, they said, write your goals down using a pen and paper. And they followed them through the years and the kids that wrote their goals down were twice as successful as the kids who didn't.

[00:18:22] katharine g: So there's magic that when you think it and you actually write it on the paper, as opposed to just typing it with your thumbs. So I want you to write a list of all the people you think you need to forgive. And yes, I know you're going to think, you're going to write down the unforgivables first.

[00:18:37] katharine g: Everybody does. Totally fine. But after you write those three, four people, keep going. Think of the people you grew up with as a kid. I want you to write them all down. Okay? And then I want you to rate them from one to ten. Ten being horrific, ugly, unforgivable, and one being the worst. Okay? Easiest person in the world to forgive.

[00:18:57] katharine g: The person who stole your parking space at the grocery [00:19:00] store yesterday. The person who cut you off on I 95 South. You can forgive these people. Your football team that lost the Super Bowl. Come on now, you could forgive that. They, they had an off day. These are forgivable things and rate them between 1 and 10.

[00:19:14] katharine g: And then I want you to sit quietly, all the little humans out of the room. You can have your dog there as long as he's quiet, but I kind of want you alone for a good. 15, 20 minutes. And I want you to put your hand in your heart because it just reminds you to speak the words from your heart. The words are just for us stupid humans.

[00:19:35] katharine g: It's really the energy behind the words where the magic is. And then say the mantra that I mentioned before. And after you say the mantra, I want you to check in with your body. You still mad? Was it a number one person? And it's a zero now? Fantastic. Cross their name off. Is that number, was it a number three person and you're still kind of mad and it's down to a two?

[00:19:57] katharine g: Okay, wait 20, cross the number out, [00:20:00] write a two there now. Wait 24 hours, do it again. Wait 24 hours. Here's, here's, here's the really interesting one. I happen to know a friend of mine. She did a level 4 person. She thought I could easily just kick this right out. After the first pass, it shot up to a 9. She was pissed.

[00:20:20] katharine g: You could see it in her face. She was really mad. What happened? Why was she so angry? Well, your brain is the most beautiful tool in the world, and it protects you. And in the back of your mind, there's a closet that's been padlocked for decades. And in that closet is a movie that's been playing. And you didn't know it was there.

[00:20:37] katharine g: And it's just playing. You would have turned it off and dealt with it if you knew it was there, but you don't even know it's there. Well, forgiveness is like the layers of an onion. And that first layer just got removed. And your brain's going, Ooh. Catherine just removed the layer. Now I can open up the closet and I'm going to happily flood you with memories.

[00:20:57] katharine g: You didn't know we're there. So now what do [00:21:00] you do? Well, you deal with it. You think about it. You get angry. You know, it's like Elizabeth Kubler Ross. You have to go through all the stages of anger and you write it down. You write down the new number, which in this case is a 9. Wait 24 hours and do it again.

[00:21:13] katharine g: This is a process. You can't get a number 10 person down to a one overnight. It's not going to happen. This is a process. It's called shadow work. It's because we're dealing with the shadows of the past. Now, a lot of people look at me and says, I don't want to go back to my past. It was horrific. I get it.

[00:21:28] katharine g: Mine wasn't that great either, but I'm only asking you to go back once or twice more so you can change it. What do I mean by that? I come from pretty rough background, not as rough as some, but it was rough enough, enough that I wanted to commit suicide. And I can, now that I've done all the work and I've changed and I've forgiven everything because I really, I have.

[00:21:50] katharine g: I can look back at my past, and I don't see the hate anymore. I see the love that was there. I see the adults that were trying to help that kid. I [00:22:00] see the pockets of happiness that I have. I legitimately don't remember the bad stuff as much anymore. It's kind of gone. Now, I probably could regurgitate it, if you want me to.

[00:22:11] katharine g: Probably could, if I thought long and hard about it. But it's gone. I don't remember it. So have I changed my past? I've changed my perspective of it because it's in the past. It's unchangeable. No, but you can look back with a different perspective and look at different pieces of it. This is the freedom I'm offering because now I can look forward.

[00:22:30] katharine g: I can look at my life has opened up that I can see new things. I can see the love that's around me today. This is the freedom that I'm offering you the 

[00:22:38] shilpa: peace. That is lovely. And early on, you mentioned that there was a phase, and I'm sure it's ongoing, just like all of us were delved deeper into spirituality.

[00:22:53] shilpa: What modalities do you include from that? part of your life even now. Like I imagine [00:23:00] journaling is one of them. Anything else that you include? 

[00:23:05] katharine g: I write a lot of books and there's another book that I wrote called The Little Bird on Your Shoulder that teaches you how to have a two way conversation with your intuition.

[00:23:13] katharine g: The thing about anger is the reason you're having so much trouble tapping into your intuition or your gut or that small still voice in your head is because anger and hate act like a shield. So the more people you forgive, the more your natural gifts are going to open up. Everybody on the planet is intuitive.

[00:23:35] katharine g: I was just born with the volume turned all the way up, but everybody can do this. You either see it, hear it, know it, or just sense it. Have you ever gone into a room and it just feels Off. I mean, off. And you're looking around and everything feels okay, but it's just, you know, it's not right. So you leave and something happens.

[00:23:54] katharine g: You're like, aha. Or let's say you're hiring somebody. We've all done this. And if the person [00:24:00] looks great, they're wearing the right things, you've called all the right, you know, you've called the people and the references. So you hire the person. And three months later, it all blows up in your face and you say to yourself, and we've all said this.

[00:24:11] katharine g: I knew I shouldn't have done that. Every single person on the planet has sent that. I knew I shouldn't have done that. Well, how did you know? It was your little bird in your shoulder, giving you a warning. You just didn't listen. Now the, the little bird in my shoulder has saved my life three times. Not that Catherine's counting particularly, but it did.

[00:24:28] katharine g: And if I hadn't listened to this bird, I'd probably be dead because it saved my life. And I, The intuition practice that I use is I actually use guided writing and it is a form of journaling. So I'll sit down in a quiet place and I will just let the thoughts, whatever thoughts come to my head, I'll write them down on the paper.

[00:24:47] katharine g: If I see an image in my mind, I will write that down on the paper. If I smell something, I'll write down what I'm smelling on the paper. If I hear words, which is actually what I hear because I'm clear audient. And I'm also [00:25:00] clairvoyant, but whatever I hear, I will write it down in the paper. And before you know it, if you do this enough, you're going to be having a two way conversation with your intuition.

[00:25:10] katharine g: It's your higher self. It's, you could call it God, universe, you could call it anything you like, I don't care, but you're having a conversation with a force that's bigger than you. 

[00:25:21] shilpa: That is 

[00:25:22] katharine g: fascinating. That lets everybody's brains 

[00:25:23] shilpa: out a little bit. Yeah, well, and one of my favorite topics is going deeper into intuition, and it seems obvious now that you've, the way you articulated it, but I didn't, realize, I'm like, well, okay, you, if you can clear up that energy, that it's like a veil perhaps, or an ego in the way that is tainting your perception or ability to tune into your intuition, which can be That yucky energy of 

[00:25:56] katharine g: anger.

[00:25:57] katharine g: I can show you. I can demonstrate exactly what I'm talking [00:26:00] about. If you're listening to the audio presentation, I'm going to talk you through this presentation. So it's fine. Right now, I'm holding a purple teacup. I put coffee and tea. It's a purple cup to the side of my body. This purple cup represents bitterness, anger, resentment, hatred, chaos.

[00:26:17] katharine g: Look at my body language. I can be talking to you. I can conduct my life. I can manage my anger. This is easy. I don't know what you're talking about. It's easy. I got this. Well, of course, because I can hold it off. But if you don't take anything out of the cup, you're going to humans irritate other humans and families will really mess you up.

[00:26:36] katharine g: So you're going to continue to put stuff back into the cup. Well, if you don't release it, it's going to start to get heavy. So now it's taking two hands to hold up the cup. I could still hold it off to the side. We, you and I could still have a conversation. I could go to work. But it's starting to creep into my conversations with you.

[00:26:53] katharine g: It's starting to creep into my head. It's starting to mess me up. If I continue to hold on to it [00:27:00] and I don't release any of it, now I'm holding the cup in front of my face and I'm using both hands to hold up the cup. My life is stopped. I'm probably down to one friend because it's all I can talk about.

[00:27:09] katharine g: It's all I can think about. And even if I spin the story funny, I'm still talking about it. The energy, the negative energy is making me sick. So now I'm talking about how, how I feel all the time. And it's always, I'm, it's always awful. I'm like a negative Nelly who wants to be around me. So what do you do?

[00:27:27] katharine g: How do you put the cup down? Using my formula, you forgive the easy people in your life, the people you would rate a one, two, or three. Well, now look at me now, the cup is actually off to my side. I'm still holding, taking two hands to hold it up. But look at my body language. My life has started to open up.

[00:27:43] katharine g: I'm seeing opportunities that I missed before. I'm seeing a dream job or a beautiful home or the perfect relationship. Why didn't I notice it before? Well, because anger was acting like a shield and I wasn't paying attention to it. Now I can listen to my intuition. [00:28:00] Now I could pay attention to the world around me and it's all because I started to forgive.

[00:28:04] katharine g: And the more you forgive, the more eventually you'll be able to put your cup down. Now, are you ever done with it? No, I still have people that I need. Humans irritate other humans. You know, the thing about forgiveness, it's an ongoing practice. I practice every night before I go to bed, I'll sit down and I'll think of the three things I'm most grateful for, even if it's for a hot cup of coffee or the coffee exists.

[00:28:27] katharine g: And then I will think about the people I needed to forgive from that day or the places or whatever enters my mind. And I do it every night. Before I go to 

[00:28:36] shilpa: bed, that's beautiful. Yes. I already have that practice of, um, gratitude and incorporating forgiveness. Sometimes I don't think I necessarily am holding a grudge, but there's always some level of energy where my mind is occupied with having, have, having a scenario living in my mind or brain rent free.[00:29:00] 

[00:29:00] shilpa: But these 

[00:29:01] katharine g: scenarios, they can be forgiven too. Anything can be forgiven. If you're watching CNN and something pisses you off, it can be forgiven. I'm not kidding. Anything can be forgiven. If you're, if you're having problems with your shower, the shower, you think I'm crazy. I'm actually not. The shower can be forgiven.

[00:29:16] katharine g: You could forgive politicians, dare I say. Don't go there. You can forgive the war in the Middle East. What's it going to do for the war in the Middle East? absolutely nothing, but it's gonna do brilliant things for your mind. If your football team really, really did lose at the Super Bowl, you could forgive it.

[00:29:34] katharine g: Now, let me add one little question that a gentleman said to me that I found really interesting. He looked at me, my husband and I were someplace and I started to talk about this and he looked at me and he said, I don't agree. Okay, I love it when people say things like that to me. Okay, bring it. He said, I made a lot of money.

[00:29:52] katharine g: In my head, I'm thinking, good for you. I have a lot of companies. I have a lot of houses. And in my head, I'm thinking, okay, is this going [00:30:00] someplace? Right? And he said, and I built my business and my brand on my bed of hate. I was raised, and he went into his childhood, and he went into his, his story, and it was horrible, and it was awful, and he built his brand on that bed of hatred and anger.

[00:30:22] katharine g: Okay, let's talk about that. Sure. There's two trains you could take. You have a choice. You could take the Express, or you could take the local. The local stops at every single stop, and will get you to your destination, but you will stop at every single stop. It's like going into a hotel, getting into the elevator, and you're going to the 70th floor, and some punk kid has gone and pressed every single button.

[00:30:48] katharine g: So you have to stop at every floor that goes all the way up to the 70th floor. This has happened to every one of us, and by the time you get to your destination, you're a mess. So the answer is yes, [00:31:00] you can get there on the local train, but you're going to be a bloody mess by the time you get there. And it's going to be painful.

[00:31:08] katharine g: Wouldn't you rather take the express, which is love forgiveness. I've been on that local chain. It sucks. So yeah, I hop off that one and come over to the express. You can get there on the local. Uh, do you want to? 

[00:31:24] shilpa: Yeah, I, I, I understand that metaphor you're describing in terms of how do you arrive to that place where that energy is released.

[00:31:34] shilpa: Um, and at some point, just to wrap up, you mentioned, well, inevitably, I can maybe speak to my own humanness, um, one is triggered. I can give you a stupid example, but it's been bothering me because I let myself get so triggered. We have two little kittens and we went, I know they're so lovable and so cute and yet they destroy everything all the time and [00:32:00] no matter, no nose, no yells, no net.

[00:32:05] shilpa: I don't know how to discipline them and they're destroying things. Nice things in our home constantly. Every piece of furniture has been destroyed at some point now. And just yesterday I, I, I lost it with one of the two and then I immediately felt bad. I'm like, they're just following their instincts and I'm, I, I should know better.

[00:32:26] shilpa: I'm the one with the senses. I'm the human. And then I, I, for the rest of the day, I beat myself up. Like, I can't believe I did that. Can't believe I got so angry. 

[00:32:36] katharine g: So here's what you do. I want you to forgive the kittens and the energy around the kittens. Start with that. Then I want you to forgive yourself and the anger you're around yourself.

[00:32:45] katharine g: Then I want you to forgive the furniture. I'm not kidding in your home that the kittens have destroyed and the energy around each piece. And then I want you to forgive your anger itself and the energy around your anger. And [00:33:00] that's probably going to make you feel better. And if you're still beating yourself up, wait 24 hours and try it again and do it before bed because energy is released when you do this type of work.

[00:33:11] katharine g: And I don't want you to do more than 10 at a time because you can make yourself sick because the energy, it's serious science. And I do it before bed because your body heals itself at night when you're sleeping. So that's why I always do this practice. And most people, when they do the forgiveness work, they get tired, like really tired.

[00:33:28] katharine g: Which is why I tell people, please don't do it during the day unless you can nap, because it's probably going to make you tired. 

[00:33:36] shilpa: That is wonderful. I, I'll practice it. I'll try. And the biggest revelation from our conversation today for me was the fact that you, when you are angry, it is affecting your intuition.

[00:33:52] shilpa: It is. That's. It is. That is a very profound point. [00:34:00] 

[00:34:00] katharine g: It acts as a shield. So even if you wanted to hear God's voice or whatever you call your, that, that universal force, whatever you call it. You're not going to be able to hear it because your anger is, you're literally shielding yourself from the other side.

[00:34:14] katharine g: So as you forgive, your natural senses are going to start to come alive. Now, if your, if your natural sense is a kind of clairvoyant, does that mean you're going to see ghosts in your, in your office in the next 10 minutes? Probably not. It's not a Stephen King thing. What it really means is that your natural way of hearing your intuition is through sight.

[00:34:35] katharine g: That's all clairvoyance means, and it means I see the answer. I can see it in my head as like a movie playing in my head. I can see it in the written word or something online. And then if you hear it, that means you literally hear words. If you feel it, you're literally feeling the energy. You could feel good energy, you could feel bad energy.

[00:34:54] katharine g: If somebody's sick and it was somebody is really stealing your energy, you walk away [00:35:00] exhausted. You're probably an empath. And then they're the knowing people. And they're, they're hard to read because one minute they don't know it and the next minute they do. And the only way you could tell is they probably use their mama voice on you.

[00:35:12] katharine g: My older son is a law enforcement officer so he uses his cop voice occasionally. So that's the only way. One minute they don't know it and the next minute they absolutely know it and don't argue with them because darn it they're always right. And every one of us uses one of these methods and the only reason you're not using the method is perhaps maybe you're, you're, you're cutting it off.

[00:35:34] katharine g: You're shielding yourself from it. 

[00:35:37] shilpa: That's so profound. Well, I really got, um, such a great insight on so many facets of, um, energy and then its relationship to forgiveness and even intuition, cultivating intuition. Thank you, Catherine. Now, anyone that is looking at those show notes, where would you want them to focus on in terms of what to [00:36:00] read and how, um, they can start applying these things?

[00:36:06] katharine g: You could go to my website at Catherine Giovanni dot com and Catherine, thanks to my mother, is spelled a little odd and it's K A T H A R I N H Giovanni dot com. Thanks mom. You could also go to Amazon. All my books are up there and I do, for two of them, I have the audio book, the e book and the paperback available.

[00:36:24] katharine g: My younger son and I did the audio book together and we're still speaking to each other. I have such mad respect for anybody who does audio work. It is not as easy as you think, just sitting down and reading. Next time you watch a movie that's animated, mad respect. It is not easy. Not as easy as you 

[00:36:43] shilpa: would 

[00:36:44] katharine g: think.

[00:36:45] shilpa: Actually, yeah, just a side note on that one is I do a lot of guided meditations. I record and on the surface, it seems like a straightforward guided meditation. Those are 

[00:36:55] katharine g: tough to record. They're tough. You make mistakes, you have to go [00:37:00] back and then you make the smacking sounds with your mouth and Jeremy's like, nope, got to do it again.

[00:37:04] katharine g: I mean, it's just, it's, it's crazy, crazy hard, but, um, yeah, we, we get through it. And this is the first book of three. The next book, which I'm writing actually right now is, um, which will probably be out, I'm hoping by June, um, is about how to forgive yourself. Hello. Yeah, that's a good one. That's a big one. I think that's a big one for me.

[00:37:29] katharine g: How to, everybody's asking me when it's going to be finished. So hopefully by the time this airs, if it's not out by the time it airs, it'll be close. So just go to my website and all the information will be there 

[00:37:39] shilpa: either. Okay. Yeah. I hope by then that I can look at it as well. Well, thank you, Catherine. I wish you a lovely day and I appreciate you.

[00:37:50] shilpa: Tremendous. Thank you so much for having me. It was fun. It was fun. Thank you so much and have a great day.