Life Ascending: Discovering Peace through Meditation on the Journey from Religion to Spirituality. A Conversation with David Youngren (Epi.#211)

In this engaging conversation, Shilpa interviews David about his transformative journey from being a Christian minister to discovering a deeper sense of spirituality through meditation. David shares how a chance encounter with a peaceful stranger on a golf course led him to explore meditation and ultimately change his life. He delves into how inner stillness, love, and wisdom can transcend traditional religious boundaries. They discuss themes such as neuroplasticity, inner peace, Christ Consciousness, and the importance of empathy and understanding in a divisive world. David also introduces his book, 'Life Ascending,' which aims to unlock mental well-being through a blend of timeless wisdom and modern science.

00:00 Introduction and Greetings
00:32 Discovering Spirituality
00:58 A Life-Changing Encounter
05:14 The Power of Meditation
16:51 Writing and Sharing Wisdom
19:52 Bridging Ancient Wisdom and Modern Science
24:30 Embracing Christ Consciousness
34:24 Overcoming Fear with Love
41:41 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Guest Bio:

David Youngren is a spiritual philosopher, author, and meditation teacher dedicated to helping people unlock mental wellbeing through timeless wisdom and new science. He has spoken to over a million people wor

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Transcript

[00:00:00] shilps: Well, welcome, David. 

[00:00:05] david: Well, thank you very much, Ilpa. It's nice to be here with you. 

[00:00:09] shilps: It is very nice to be with you. And we just, before we played, um, hit record, we discovered that we are both in San Diego area. 

[00:00:18] david: That is correct, and it's a beautiful place to be, although the last few days have had some rain, but otherwise this is a pretty sunny place.

[00:00:26] shilps: Yeah, it is sunny, and I actually appreciate the rain, so it's, it's been nice. Um, well, Without further ado, David, I am really excited you're here and to talk to you during the season of spirituality. I love chatting with people who are so deep into the spirituality. They've written books about it. They have a lifestyle around it.

[00:00:52] shilps: I'd love to hear your journey. How did you arrive upon this? What was your catalyst? 

[00:00:58] david: Well, I, I [00:01:00] think that, um, personally I was raised in a, thank you for, by the way, for the questions and for the opportunity to share with you today and with the audience. It's really a great opportunity. It began for me during a time of crisis, really.

[00:01:15] david: I was raised in a religious home. I was a minister, a Christian minister that traveled around the world. And I thought, uh, I needed to convert everybody to my religion, so to speak. That's how it began for me. But internally, I was dealing with a plethora of negative emotions. And I remember one day, I was kind of thinking about what I would need to do, and some of the things that, you know, was Presented before me and I thought I need to go to the golf course and play golf by myself of all things And uh when I went to the golf course I I specifically asked the person that I hope there's nobody else here because I want to play by myself And I started playing and I saw on the first when I [00:02:00] was teeing off at the first hole, which was about 500 yards long And I saw at the end another gentleman playing who was just putting And I thought, well, I'm going to take my time on this first hole.

[00:02:12] david: And so I don't, I won't catch up to him. So he won't ask me to play together with me. And by the time I finally arrived at the second hole, he was sitting on a bench waiting for me. And I thought, Oh no, I wanted to do this by myself. And here I am. I'm trying to get some kind of a. Kind of what am I supposed to do?

[00:02:32] david: What, what's, what's the purpose here for my life? And I thought, well, I'm, I'm Christian believer. I believe in my religion. I'm going to tell them like what I believe in and everything. And so I started doing that. And, um, And I noticed he was so different. There was something different about this man. He wasn't talking about religion.

[00:02:54] david: He was talking more about spirituality, about an inner transformation, [00:03:00] about love and peace, not about a doctor, not about a story, not a narrative, but about an inner peace, something that transcended, um, you know, the different religious terminology, something that we all Kind of long for which is love and peace and inner stillness and mental well being and all those different things me and my stupidity I just continue to tell him what I thought and try to get him to change and At the end of the day, I thought to myself I came here to find some kind of direction and here I am and Nothing happened except that I got this man here who who exuded this warmth and love and peace and Which I didn't And I was supposed to be in my mind.

[00:03:45] david: I was supposed to be the one who had the tooth and I knew what what things were like and and that kind of stuck with me. It didn't change me right away, but this stuck with me. What happened here? Why did he exude such peace more than anybody person I'd [00:04:00] ever met he had? This incredible inner quality that, that just, you felt like this, just, you just felt good to be around him.

[00:04:09] david: Um, and then, a year and a half later, we just moved to California, just moved to San Diego. And now I'm traveling the world. I have a lot of success in, in my, religious background, but I'm feeling terrible at the inside. And I started having these cluster headaches to the point where I felt like someone was sticking a knife in my eye and twisting the knife around.

[00:04:33] david: And then later on, I learned it was like, like these cluster headaches are the worst pain a human can suffer. Now, I don't know if you have any children, Shilpa, but, but women tell me you have never given birth to children. So you don't know what. Child pain is, I'm just telling you what I read, uh, on Google and who knows if they're correct, but the pain was so severe and I would have it, it would last like anywhere from, uh, [00:05:00] 45 minutes to three hours at the time.

[00:05:01] david: And in the beginning I would have it maybe every second day or so, but then I started having it every day. And then I started having it several times a day. And I was so frustrated. I said, I don't want to live. This, this is a crazy way to live. And then I just had this, and you have to understand you, you, you come from a different background.

[00:05:19] david: I see that. And then I did, I come from a very Western, uh, Christian background and meditation was something that we stayed away from meditation, you know, like you don't want to meditate, like, what is that? But I had like this inner, I just going to meditate. Cause you know, I just need to meditate. And I sat down there and imagine pure.

[00:05:41] david: Selfless love, divine love. And as I did I became overwhelmed with this incredible sense of, uh, unconditional love. And instantly, the pain disappeared. And, and I thought, well, what happened here? Now, [00:06:00] I thought about it a lot afterwards and studied some of the science behind it and all of that. And I can understand what happened.

[00:06:06] david: And then, one day, I was, uh, a couple of years later, I was still feeling frustration. Still feeling all this burden. And then I, I remember something that Jesus said, you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free. And I thought, well, I'm not free. So I must be missing something about the truth.

[00:06:23] david: And I began to continue to meditate. And as I continued to meditate, I began to become, uh, just something happened. I became aware of this inner stillness, this peace, and many of the thoughts, the turbulent thoughts, and the turbulence in my mind just. And I started feeling this, like this incredible, uh, love arising, love for all people, a sense of oneness with all people, a sense of, uh, I look at people and say, wow, uh, I've been so caught up in my mind and in my thinking that I didn't even know all [00:07:00] these different things.

[00:07:00] david: And I became, just became enamored. And I saw people and I remember coming up to stop sign and there was a. Uh, you know, there was a green light, but the person ahead of me was driving so slow, and I missed the green light, and I was frustrated in the beginning, because I've always been an impatient person.

[00:07:19] david: But then, uh, I just Took a deep breath and just became to a point of meditative stillness and I began to observe the person walking across the street, a homeless person, and I was just filled with this deep sense of love and gratitude and, and it changed me. So then I began to study the Aramaic because sometimes, you know, religion has a way to kind of misquote what someone like Jesus or some other religious leader has said.

[00:07:47] david: They, they, they interpret it their own way. And I started reading that word, and that word truth means inner light. And what does light do? Light illuminates. Light is that which illuminates [00:08:00] reality. Consciousness at its core is what illuminates our reality. And so the inner light is not something coming from the outside, but it's an inner light that illuminates reality.

[00:08:11] david: And I thought about this, that when we come to a place, when we bypass what I call the turmoil of this thing here, Hope you can see it, uh, the, the, of the brain where we move beyond that and we come to a place of inner stillness. There is a freedom. So that's how my story began. That's how it all started.

[00:08:34] david: So I'm sorry, I took probably a long time to explain it, but, uh, yeah, that's how it began for me. 

[00:08:39] shilps: I think that's fascinating. I, um, I'm curious, the individual that you met when you were golfing, did you ever find out what about his lifestyle made him so peaceful? 

[00:08:53] david: You know, it's such a great question Shilpa, and someone else asked me, do you ever kind of [00:09:00] ask me the similar question, I'm thinking, I really don't know anything about the person, never met the person afterwards, don't know who he was, uh, I don't really know even his name, I call him Nick, but that's just because I don't know his name, uh, so yeah.

[00:09:14] david: Know nothing about the man. 

[00:09:16] shilps: Wow. And when you, um, started to practice the stillness, maybe early forms of meditation, um, did you then further explore that modality and how to meditate? 

[00:09:33] david: Yes, I did. I actually, I became immersed in it. And, uh, and I started meditating every day. And as the more I meditate, which is to come into a place of inner stillness, that was the main thing.

[00:09:48] david: And I come into a place of inner stillness where I'm just becoming aware of consciousness itself. Becoming aware and it felt like it's hard to describe with words. It's really. It's almost [00:10:00] impossible to say what it is, because words are just pointers, you can't describe it or articulate it really what it is, but some of the words that I use are like a peaceful presence, like a loving, peaceful presence, where you're simply aware in the now, you're not like, your mind is not racing over here or over there or doing this or doing that, you're just simply aware.

[00:10:27] david: And I think when you come into that place and you sit in that stillness for long enough, it begins to change how you think, how you see the world. It somehow or another affects your mental well being and causes, you know, a lot of stuff that we have. And I show this again because I like to think it's such a good picture.

[00:10:50] david: Here's the brain. So much of our life. of what we think we are is in this brain. And here, of course, we have on the top we have the neo cortex, which is the [00:11:00] rational, uh, the rational mind. And then you have what we call the limbic, the emotional brain, and the, you know, which fear and all of that. And then Um, any sensation in our body creates, you know, fears basically send signals to your body and it creates a sensation in your body and then it creates a feedback loop and eventually it may become part of this area here, which is cerebellum, which is your subconscious.

[00:11:25] david: And how do you change that? It's very difficult to transform if people have traumas, people have gone through all kinds of things in their life, neglect, they deal with shame, they deal with fear, they deal with a plethora of these negative emotions, and they can't escape it. We escaped them. It's like voices in their heads that they didn't ask for.

[00:11:49] david: They are automatic. They keep reoccurring and people are saying, how can I come to a place of inner stillness? And so what I found was for me [00:12:00] was when I began to meditate and the deeper I came into that form of meditation, my thoughts just subsided. The emotional. Turmoil that I had, I, I just felt like this burden had lifted and I, I was on a deeper level free.

[00:12:16] david: And not to say that everything is perfect. I'm not here to you, you know, to talk about me. I'm just here to help people understand that this is something that everyone can experience. Um, and, and I was, I was in a mess and I, hopefully the people are watching this or people are hearing this podcast will feel that sense of awe.

[00:12:38] david: It can happen to me if it, you know, they can experience the same kind of inner stillness and peace and love and sense of awe. I love going out in nature and just being in a sense of awe of everything around me. And being with people and being with you and being in awe and [00:13:00] just feeling respect and love and peace.

[00:13:04] david: Um, yeah, hope that explains it. 

[00:13:07] shilps: Oh, it's very eloquently explained and I, um, for those who are watching or listening, I encourage you to watch the YouTube version because you were showing a model of the brain and how there's a correlation that you're pointing to the parts of the brain that are affected.

[00:13:26] shilps: And you've probably become familiar with neuroplasticity and the effects of meditation over time. 

[00:13:33] david: Absolutely. 

[00:13:36] shilps: Yes. And you also talked about patterns and habits. And I think that a lot of us, whether it's upbringing or culture, we are living with a certain kind of framework, so to speak, and yours was that you had a certain, um, approach to spirituality.

[00:13:55] shilps: And I think, um, your shift sounds remarkable because it was like [00:14:00] this inner catalyst. 

[00:14:02] david: Absolutely. It was, it was just, and you know, Shilpa, when you're in a place of desperation, when you're in a place of, Okay, this is not working for me. Sometimes you have to hit rock bottom, and I hit rock bottom in every possible way, and it was then I said, there's got to be something more.

[00:14:25] david: There's got to be something more about this spiritual life. Religion to me, And my approach to religion or whatever, you know, the I'm not criticizing religion per se, but my approach to religion has not helped me is not making me more whole on the inside is it's It has the opposite effect, opposite effect on me instead.

[00:14:50] david: And so to, for me, that became a catalyst for a inner searching for something deeper. And [00:15:00] it just happened to kind of fall in my lap in many ways, because it just I think that's what happens to all of us when we truly search, when we truly long for something. It comes to us. And, uh, and then of course, through all of this, when, when I had this experience, because we're talking about experience and for someone like myself, I like to then look into the science behind it.

[00:15:23] david: I look, look into the, you know, neuroscience, uh, quantum physics and All those other aspects as well to kind of get a broader idea, philosophies and psychology, to get a broader idea of what's happening here. Because ultimately, you know, what I seek to do, in a similar way, I'm sure to you, seek to help people, uh, seek.

[00:15:46] david: To help people with mental struggles and mental unrest and to experience a greater level of wholeness and mental stability and clarity and actually come to that place of inner [00:16:00] peace and stillness and just being okay with life. So, I began to study all these different things, and it's incredibly fascinating.

[00:16:07] david: The more you learn about neuroscience, and you talk about neuroplasticity with meditation, how it actually helps change the brain, uh, how it transforms the brain, which is so fascinating. And um, yeah. And so, yes, I studied a lot of these different things because it, it helps kind of, we need, we often need, when you have an experience, you need something to, um, Validate it or verify it, uh, because we still think with our thoughts, we still have an intellect.

[00:16:42] david: And so it's, it's always good to have that. And so I've spent a lot of time, and that's why I wrote my book as well, to help people see all these different aspects 

[00:16:51] shilps: and perhaps you can share, uh, the title of your book and, um, what inspired it. Um. Obviously, your journey was part of [00:17:00] that, but, uh, specifically, what message you're trying to convey and who do you think you, you can really connect with that really needs to hear the message?

[00:17:11] david: Well, the book is called, and I have it here, I hope you can see it for those who are watching on video. Of course, if you're listening on a podcast, you probably can't watch it, but it's called Life Ascending, Unlocking Mental Wellbeing Through Timeless Wisdom and New Science. And You know, I come from the Christian background, and I realize, um, that, of course, I'm, I'm an inclusive.

[00:17:37] david: I am inclusive of, of everyone. To me, that's how I see the world. But I wanted to speak to many people who come from that background, but also to other people who come from different backgrounds. And I specifically went, and I thought this was very intriguing, I began to study the Aramaic portrait of Jesus.

[00:17:57] david: What he actually said in his native language, [00:18:00] and that was very helpful. And also, as I said, the book, we studied science and quantum physics and neuro, uh, neuroscience and, and, uh, even heart cardiology. Uh, we have mentioned that in the book, but it really is about 300 pages long. It's about, um, And the goal, of course, as the title, subtitle suggests, is to unlock mental well being.

[00:18:25] david: To help people, it's, there's practical steps, how I do meditation, why meditation works, there is parts there about wisdom, how inner wisdom, um, leads to creativity, and where does inner wisdom come from. Uh, not from knowledge. Knowledge is important, but inner wisdom is something deeper. This is deeper intelligence than just your own.

[00:18:52] david: And, uh, yeah, so it's a good book. It's been, uh, one of the persons who endorses is Peter Russell, who wrote a book, Letting Go of [00:19:00] Nothing. Uh, Eckhart Tolle had I'm sure you've heard of him, had endorsed that as well. So it, a lot of people have endorsed it. So we're really trying to help people. That's ultimately what it's about.

[00:19:10] david: Just trying to help people live the very best life and, uh, come to a deeper place of wholeness and Create a better world for all of us, and a more inclusive, loving, kind world. Because especially nowadays, it feels like it's not in so many ways. So we want to see a more compassionate, loving world where we can tear down the barriers that exist between us and not see each other as threats, but see each other as, um, see the divine spark within each and every one of us.

[00:19:47] david: It, probably that's the best way to put it. So that, that is in a nutshell what the book is about. 

[00:19:52] shilps: And um, you mentioned something in the title that made me curious, um, it sounds like you bridge between the [00:20:00] modern science, talking about the neuroplasticity, but you're also connecting to the ancient wisdom.

[00:20:06] shilps: And I believe I, I, I'm familiar with it, but you said Aramaic, correct? 

[00:20:13] david: Aramaic, yeah. 

[00:20:14] shilps: And um, that's the language that Jesus spoke, correct? 

[00:20:17] david: That's correct. 

[00:20:18] shilps: And, um, in your research, have you, um, brought out in your book, I haven't read the book yet, but I would like to, um, how, um, Jesus had followed the path of meditation as well.

[00:20:32] david: Yeah. A couple, there's so many incredible examples that you can bring up from that. But for example, when Jesus talked about, you know, one of the things you hear this Christian say, pray in the name of Jesus, praying in my name, Jesus said. But when you actually read. The original text, the word prayer is also meditation and contemplation.

[00:20:55] david: It kind of was all inclusive. So it wasn't like I'm speaking a bunch of words. It was actually. [00:21:00] more often used as a form of meditation. Uh, it's still quietness. And so when he says praying in my name, the name was not like some magic in the name, but the name was in reference to in the atmosphere, in the sound, in the vibration, which takes on a whole different meaning, right?

[00:21:19] david: So pray in the same peaceful, meditating the same. peaceful name as, as means things become possible. So he was dealing when you read that in a, in his original context, it's just so much, much deeper and so much more profound. And then he talks about the kingdom of God is within you. Um, a kingdom has nothing to do with you know, man.

[00:21:47] david: Kingdom had to do with being inner wisdom that flows from within. And then what, what, what Jesus was saying was when you come to a place of inner stillness, when you just come to a place of inner rest, when [00:22:00] there's just peace within you, you now tap into the wisdom, the universal wisdom. that exists all around us.

[00:22:08] david: And, uh, and you begin to, so those are just a couple of examples. There are so many examples of what Jesus said. And he said, for example, unless a man becomes born again, you shall not see the kingdom of God. This, this inner realm, the kingdom of God, which is everywhere. So the kingdom of God is within you and around you.

[00:22:28] david: It's, it's, it's all around us. And we always think of. In Christianity, we always thought of God up there somewhere, far away, but no, it's all around us. And so then he, and he says, unless a man becomes born again, and we made that into some kind of a, oh, you know, unless you write, Christianity made that into a, Unless you sign on the daughter line and just agree with these words and pray these words, then you shall be born again But that's not what Jesus is talking about at all [00:23:00] He was basically saying come back to that place that you were from the very beginning where there is not all this Attachments all these things added to you like your name your you know, when when you're a five Five days old, there was nothing there.

[00:23:20] david: You had no memory of the past. You have no expectation of the future. You were just living present in the now. So when Jesus talks about that, He is referring, come back to that place. of inner stillness when you're simply aware, and so those are just some of the many examples that I include in the book that helps people understand that, yeah, Jesus has been misinterpreted, misunderstood, but the more you delve into it and the more you see it from a, from a deeper perspective, uh, he was onto something that is truly magnificent and can be a tremendous help for many people.

[00:23:58] david: And of course there are many people [00:24:00] similar to, to Jesus who had many experiences, but For me, it was reassuring to see that, oh yes, even in Jesus, we have this. So my Christian religion may have gotten a little bit wrong. I'm not critical. I'm not being critical and I'm thankful for every person who's, who's part of it and has been helped by it.

[00:24:16] david: But I'm just saying that there could be a deeper reality that, uh, that Jesus speaks of that for most people, this, they simply don't know about it. 

[00:24:25] shilps: Yes. And when you said, um. Being in the now, to me, that means Christ Consciousness. That means something a little more than, um, the symbol of a man that was attributed to Christ, but it's Christ Consciousness, which is a level of consciousness all of us can achieve.

[00:24:50] david: Absolutely. And, you know, what you're saying here, Shilpa, is that this is something in the Bible that most Christians don't even talk about. So for [00:25:00] example, Paul, he says, he says, Christ is all and in all. Duh? You never hear that in church. Right? But he says Christ is all and in all. And then he talks about being enlightened.

[00:25:12] david: Your mind has been darkened. Being enlightened to see, to see a reality that's always been there, existent from the very beginning, Christ in you. And, and that is there. And, and so, so we don't hear much about that because we, you know, in Christianity, we have, there are sinners, there are saints. And these are the good people, these are the bad people.

[00:25:32] david: We are the good people because we believe exactly the same story and we believe it the right way. It's very focused on the neocortex here. Like this is gonna win us favors with, God or that transcendent, whatever you want to, whenever you speak of God, but the Bible talks about, um, it's no longer Paul said, it's no longer I, and the word I here is ego.

[00:25:56] david: It's no longer I who live, but [00:26:00] Christ. Lives in me. In other words, he was Christ consciousness, the life that I now live. It's a Christ consciousness. It's a, I'm living from this deeper essence, from this, this deeper, um, non attached, no, nothing added to it, uh, this place of now. I'm living from that dimension and, uh, And, and that frees me from the ego.

[00:26:27] david: He uses very vivid language, but still, uh, it, it kind of changes the whole approach in the meaning. And it's so incredible just to read and hear about it, you know? 

[00:26:37] shilps: Yeah, absolutely. Um, and then kind of going back to what Eckhart Tolle says, it seems, at least in my perspective, um, some of the more modern day philosophers.

[00:26:51] shilps: If they had existed in the time of Christ would have also been someone who would have, um, connected with [00:27:00] that philosophy because they would have understood what is the essence. 

[00:27:07] david: Yeah, and I think that's so, that's so very true because Jesus was the most inclusive person that I think, uh, I mean, it's hard to find a more inclusive person than Jesus in history of humanity and Christianity, the religion in his name, has become a very exclusive and totally opposite of Jesus in so many ways and it's kind of So when you talk about, uh, uh, philosophers of the, of today and many would say the same thing.

[00:27:42] david: This is, this is, this is really incredible. And I find so many people who are very smart and intelligent that want nothing to do with religion, but they're still fascinated with the aspect of Jesus that shows this peaceful presence, this love, this kind of a deeper essence of [00:28:00] living that shows us how easy All of us can live there.

[00:28:02] david: There's something there that we can see. Oh, maybe this is not just for some exclusive person that we put up on the pedestal somewhere. No, it's actually something that is for each and every one of us. What you talked about awakening to that Christ consciousness. It's already there, but to awaken to it, to be aware of it, when you're aware of it, when you're aware of this transcendent presence, that's what changes you.

[00:28:29] david: Not a doctrine about it, not a philosophy about it, but being aware of it. 

[00:28:36] shilps: Yes. And that is where there's that fine line between, um, more doctrine, religion versus spirituality, which is more expansive. Then the terminologies between all religions become, um, nonsense, like, like, I could say Christ's consciousness, it [00:29:00] applies to all souls.

[00:29:02] david: What, and I think what you bring up is such a good point, that words are, that's all they are, they're words. But if you come from a different background, you come from a different background than me, you use different words, right? And I use different words, we all can use different words, but words, we put the emphasis on having the right words, which is kind of silly, right?

[00:29:26] david: Uh, the inner transformation is what, what matters. That's true spirituality. Not that you actually have figured out all the right terminology and all the right ways to say it. I mean, even me, I recognize when I write this book, and of course I deal a lot with science and different approaches, I actually state from the very beginning that this book is worthless unless you awaken to it.

[00:29:53] david: The words are only there to guide you to this point, but the words are secondary to the reality of experiencing it. [00:30:00] And, and that, because that's what's going to change the world, otherwise it just becomes another religion. If, if you write a book and you do something, it becomes another religion, and people become followers of you or whatever.

[00:30:10] david: That's not at all what, you know, you write a book for. It's just for people to begin to see something that is so incredible, so beautiful, and a new way of living that heals the heart, that heals and transforms people from the inside out. And let every person. Uh, be who they are and in, in whatever way they want to, um, express that spirituality, as long as it's filled with love and compassion and empathy and, uh, and grace and sense of all, I think it is helpful.

[00:30:48] shilps: And it's specially needed in a time right now. Well, I think every time I think I've recently had somebody say something and a world gone mad is where we live and I'm like, Oh, I think the world's always been [00:31:00] mad. We just have to have a different lens or set of tools to approach it. But I mean, given the climate of the world at the current history, it is quite divisive and having a book like yours be able to share.

[00:31:22] shilps: The essence of the energy, the truth, not the words, but the truth, so that everyone can experience Christ consciousness in their own, well not in their own way, because truth is truth, so it's not like everyone's going to have a different experience necessarily, but that it's accessible to each of us. Um. I think that's a valuable lesson for a lot of people in the world right now.

[00:31:48] david: Yeah, and I think you, you hit it, uh, right on there when you say that the world has always been in a place of Mass and in some ways it has [00:32:00] improved actually probably for the better than it was Centuries ago and even a hundred years ago. So in many ways it has improved and it's better at the same time there is a of course a cultural shift and when there's cultural tension between the old and the new and and in between there's always going to be friction and and I think one of the problems is that when we try to pin whatever we don't agree with to the evil side of the spectrum.

[00:32:36] david: We do a disservice. We become that which we hate, which we despise in others. So to me, I think, um, it starts by listening to one another rather than demonizing one another rather than confronting one another. You know, I think about some of the issues that we're facing in the world. I always think Yeah, there is a point to everything.[00:33:00] 

[00:33:00] david: Let me understand where they're coming from rather than just dismissing what they think or how they see the world. Let me understand. Let me put myself in their shoes and feel what they're feeling and feel what they go through. And if I do that, it makes me more compassionate over them. It makes me have more empathy.

[00:33:20] david: And I think that's, that's really What spirituality can teach our world today, um, that to live from the inside, live from a place of wholeness inside so that we don't need to be right. I don't need to win the argument about my. My political views are better than yours. It's more about coming to a place of inner wholeness and then being able to hear what another person is saying and say, Yeah, I understand where you're coming from.

[00:33:51] shilps: I love that and I do find it remarkable that there are more people who are able to now [00:34:00] For lack of a better expression, connect the dots. There's more. There's more than, um, the framework of a particular religion, because each religion probably has their own lens, but a lot of it is driven by fear, and fear of not conforming, because, um, That may require for us to step outside of our comfort zone.

[00:34:24] david: I, I think you're right on fear. A lot of people would deal with fear. And I noticed something that, uh, I may, I'm not sure if I'm accurate or not, but especially, especially people who have an uncertain childhood, who had a lot of trauma in their childhood. They need certainty in life. And where do they get certainty?

[00:34:50] david: By thinking and feeling that my ideas, my worldview, my religion is the correct one and the only [00:35:00] correct one. And because that gives a sense of certainty and it also feeds the ego and makes me feel like. Somehow or another, I'm superior to others, but ultimately it's all rooted in fear. And um, you know, biblical texts, going back to the biblical texts again, because it's my paradigm, perfect love casts out all fear.

[00:35:25] david: And what is perfect love? When you're in complete harmony with the inside, uh, when there's harmony in your body, mind, and soul, if you want to use those words, uh, where you just feel a sense of love. And when you feel that sense of love, it is, there is no judgment. There is no, uh, feeling I am superior or inferior to anyone, but rather it is, uh, just being a true reflection of.

[00:35:56] david: The divine spark, seeing it in everyone, seeing the [00:36:00] oneness, which quantum physics confirm anyhow. There's a sense of oneness that undergirds all reality. And seeing that is just beautiful. So yeah. Um, 

[00:36:12] shilps: yeah, 

[00:36:13] david: I'm not sure if that was the answer, but I'm, 

[00:36:15] shilps: Oh no, no, I loved it. I love the answer. And, um, I love going deep into these types of conversations, so I, I appreciate you doing that.

[00:36:25] shilps: Now, for those who are maybe coming from the place of fear, and, um, a little skepticism, that require a little more, um, gentle, compassion, um, nudging, how would you approach those individuals? Because, you know, someone like myself, I, I, I get it. I believe it, but it's, it's all I've been around. Yeah.

[00:36:52] shilps: Understanding, um, my interpretation of Christ consciousness still understanding. [00:37:00] The world perspective the way you do. Yeah, you know, we live in a world where that's not always the case And I'm sure you've come from that Historically where you may have seen that but those are the same people who are in dire need for love and inner Transformation 

[00:37:21] david: you bring up another excellent point and question here.

[00:37:27] david: I do think that Sometimes words you can't really start with words. You have to start with actions Simply listening to people, um, simply loving people, being there for them, and, and then you earn their trust. If someone is very fearful, he's going to be fearful of anything that is new. They're going to be fearful of me, or you, or any of us, that, what is our true intention.

[00:37:59] david: [00:38:00] Because fear is so deeply embedded in their subconscious that they interpret everything that happens through, to them through a lens of fear. So, it usually takes time. And, you know, I, when, when I have my events, I do like these events. So yes, I start with teaching. I do teachings so that people have a general idea of what I'm talking about.

[00:38:23] david: But then I have a segment and, uh, at some point in the seminar where I have people ask questions, actually not so much ask questions as bringing their problems. And they talk about the fears. And I, sometimes I hear the most horrific stories and. And then we just try to help them to understand that what, oh, sorry, I should have turned off my phone here.

[00:38:51] david: Then, uh, then what happens, I feel bad here. Um, then, then [00:39:00] what happens is when we, when we have these discussions. And when we talk to them, and then everybody in the audience listens to this, of course, but they all kind of just, uh, they are filled with compassion for these people. And there is this love that just pours into this person who shares their heart, has become vulnerable, and shared what they've gone through.

[00:39:22] david: And that then opens that person up a bit more. It may not be an immediate change, and then, for me, I take them to that next step, which is Let's start meditating a bit so people have sometimes reservations about it And so I kind of kind of help them in the beginning show them a little bit and then you move on from there So he's just taking one step at a time Because fear as you brought up fear is so deep within them that it's hard for them to see any other reality So you got to be patient.

[00:39:58] david: I guess that's the key. [00:40:00] 

[00:40:02] shilps: Absolutely. And it's a subtle transformation because for those who have never meditated or understand meditation, um, it's, it's a science, but it could also require some modalities that help you, um, focus on, on your perception or your aspect of God. It could be light. It could be sound.

[00:40:32] david: Yeah. Yeah, I, I think, uh, you're right, the modality, of course, I think is a lot dependent upon the person's background, what they're comfortable with, right? So it's, it's, uh, I try to always be sensitive to what people, like, where they're coming from. And so I don't necessarily, when I help people, I don't necessarily deal with every person the same way.

[00:40:58] david: Because you can't. [00:41:00] I have to find out what What they are more likely to connect with. How they see the world. I'm sure you do the same when you're helping people. So I try not to tell them my particular worldview too much, but I just share enough of it on myself, and that's a great way to start. You share enough of yourself so that people can begin to trust you and see, okay, maybe there's something to this.

[00:41:23] david: But then finding their own way of doing things. and being able to speak the language and changing it to however they approach. Uh, and then whatever background they come from. 

[00:41:40] shilps: Absolutely. Well, I really enjoyed this conversation. It was very deep and I think it's very relevant to our time. And I am so honored that you were able to share your journey and your wisdom.

[00:41:55] david: Well, thank you so much, Shilpa. I have so much enjoyed being with you [00:42:00] and, uh, and you are a true light. Just as I've watched you and see you, I see the light shining through you, which I think is incredible. So, so much. Thank you for the opportunity. 

[00:42:10] shilps: Thank you for your soul, and thank you for your presence, and I really appreciate you.

[00:42:14] shilps: And I definitely look forward to staying connected, especially since we're in the same part of town. 

[00:42:20] david: Absolutely. We're looking forward to that as well. 

[00:42:24] shilps: Yeah. Have a great day. 

[00:42:26] david: You too. Bye bye.